Wednesday, October 12, 2005

NEWSWEEK ON MORMONISM

Newsweek has focused its eye on Mormonism, America's largest native born religion. This year marks the 200th anniversary of Joseph Smith's birth.

I'll also take this opportunity to link the valuable Lighthouse Ministry run by the Tanners, former Mormons themselves. Here's a quote they provide from a Joseph Smith sermon:
I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...

No comment needed.

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

Joseph Smith never said he was perfect; neither did Moses, nor Elijah. I'm not perfect and neither are you. Only our Heavenly Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost have that honor. Have a great day, brother.

Alan said...

Do you agree with Joseph Smith that he performed a greater work than Jesus did, then?

Truth Be Told said...

Obviously, Joseph Smith only did what Jesus asked him to do, and what Jesus gave him the authority to do. He named it "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", not the Church of Joseph Smith. He claimed only to be a prophet of God, not God himself. I think that your quote is probably bogus.

Alan said...

The citation given for the sermon the quote comes from is: History of the Church Vol. 6, p. 408-412. I have emailed the Tanners for a complete bibliographic citation, which I will post here when I receive it. From the reading I have done on Joseph Smith the quote has the ring of authenticity to it.

It is not my intent to mislead, but it also needs to be your desire not to deny reality.

proudconservative said...

OK I must admit that I have always wondered about those Mormons. After reading the excerpt from that sermon, the word "hubris" comes to mind.

Spyridon. said...

"I boast"

'nough said.

Alan said...

Okay, those who may question the quote, I emailed the Tanners and Sandra Tanner emailed back the information below:

Here is the title page just as it is printed on my book. This is in just about every library in Utah. It might even be in the local ward library of most LDS in USA.
It is also available on the LDS program Gospelink, accessed through www.deseretbook.com. For about $4 a month you can look up references to their books, including the one below, through Gospelink. Jerald bought our copy from the official LDS bookstore, Deseret Book, years ago.

Sandra Tanner


................................

History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Period I.
History of Joseph Smith, the Prophet
By Himself.
-----

Volume VI
----------

An Introduction and Notes
by
B.H. Roberts
----

Published by the Church.
--------

Deseret Book Company
44 East South Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah


Eight Printing

1975
........................................


.............
Next page states--

Copyright by
George Albert Smith
for
The Church of Jesus Christ
of
Latter-day Saints
1950

Lithographed by Deseret Press

Wild Bill said...

Alan,
Incisive, as always, but I'm afraid the comments posted by apparent Mormons is indicative of the cultic mindset created by that group. I spent an hour this past Saturday with two earnest young men, "Elders" both (although neither married nor with children--1 Tim. 3--of course). It was like talking to a wall. They simply would not accept that the New Testament makes claims to completion, finality, and sufficiency which exclude both the need for and the authority of, "another testament." That is also apart from the fact that the historical claims of the book of Mormon are fantastical and rejected by archaeology (as opposed to the Bible which "the spade" continues to confirm).
From the falsehoods about Jesus being "Heavenly Father's" literal son (a blasphemous falsehood that denies Christ's divinity and marks Joseph Smith and "his" church as an anti-Christ, not to mention that little part about God having a wife that Joseph Smith taught and Mormons don't publicly acknowledge publicly) to their assertion that man must continually be led by Apostles and prophets, no light of truth could penetrate the Mormon dogma.

It was both a frustrating and discouraging experience.

Anonymous said...

Elijah was supremely confident with the priests of Baal, you might say boastful. Some of the reaction here to Joseph Smith's comment seems to have provoked the same feelings as the priests. Perhaps Joseph Smith's confidence was what was needed to have the church succeed. One boastful comment out of probably thousands of discourses which did show absolute loyalty and worship of Jesus Christ does not a megalomaniac make.

Anonymous said...

I can't understand the reasons why the Mormon Church inspires such dedicated opposition to its existence and inclusion in the Christian family. In a time of receding cultural values you would think Christians in general would consider a big-tent approach and not look to be exclusionary. I'm sure the missionaries who visted Wild Bill did not attempt to tell him he was wrong in his beliefs, but rather offered him their testimony of their faith and belief system as well as an invitation to learn more (which he was free to decline and did). If you base your opinion of the Church on one quote from a self-professed imperfect man, then I am sorry for you miss many wonderful aspects of the LDS Church. I would think that a life spent in opposition is a life wasted. Enjoy your faith in peace, brother, and please let me and the rest of the LDS Church do the same.

Wild Bill said...

It is not for mere men to determine who is "included" in the family of Christ. Only the Lord Jesus can do such.

My opposition to Mormonism, while certainly confirmed by the statement cand character of Joseph Smith, does not begin or end there. Rather, it is the heretical doctrines taught by the Mormon church that demand opposition. From its teaching that God "Heavenly Father" was a man on another planet who achieved divine status; its teaching God has a wife; its teaching that Jesus is the physical offspring of God and a created being rather than God Eternal (as well as being the spirit brother of Lucifer); that the Holy Spirit is not God; and its teaching that men will become God's on their own planets populated by their children--just to name a few heresies--the Mormon church has demonstrated that it is not only not Christian it is an anti-Christ, denying the true nature of Jesus.

I implore you Anonymous to turn from a heresy that--no matter how familiar and comfortable--will damn your soul. Only the gospel once for all delivered to the saints by the Apostles can save--not the false teachings of Joseph Smith, which can only condemn.

Leia said...

In Romans 8:16-17, it says that we can be "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:16-17). If Christ is an exalted being, a God, then couldn't that mean humans can attain Godhood? Just the proverbial question.

LDS people don't view Scriptures as being closed because of the belief that Revelation continues today. Also, though interpreted by many to be a statement that no more scripture can be declared (in Revelation 22:18-19), many people (including LDS people) don't realize that the books that make up the Bible weren't compiled into a single volume (though different Christian churches in/exclude different books {i.e. the Apocrypha), so there is no single "Bible" per se) for a long time (centuries later, I think). If I remember, The word Bibilo, from which "Bible" comes, means "the books" (plural, not singular). Therefore, as far as we know, Revelation was its own book, & its warning to not add or take scripture from it applies to that book & that book alone. (interestingly enough, similar phrases/ideas can be found in Deut 4:2 & 12:32; Proverbs 30:6, but see what Jeremiah, a Prophet, according to believers, did in Jer. 36:32 (27-32)). It appears the placement of Revelation at the end of the New Testament may have influenced/caused the idea that there'll never be more revelations to man.
Also, as "children of God" wouldn't it make sense for those children to have a Mother? At least to LDS people, it makes sense; it's a part of eternal progression. "Heavenly Mother," though not spoken of much, is not spoken of much out of respect--to prevent the likelihood of using Her name in vain, as so many have done w/ God, or "Heavenly Father". There is a beautiful (& rather popular) hymn in the LDS Hymnbook that addresses the issue of Heavenly Mother: Oh My Father(# 292), verse 3: "I had learned to call Thee Father, Thru thy Spirit from on high. But, until the key of knowledge was restored, I knew not why. In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason; truth eternal Tells me I've a mother there."
Also, though many have not studied Christian History, it is my understanding it wasn't until the Council of Constanople (381 AD) that "God" was defined as 'one God existing in 3 coequal Persons' (the Father, Son, & Holy Ghost). However, back then (and even before then) there were those like Justin Martyr who reportedly felt Christ was "a second God, second numerically but not in will" Food for thought, if nothing else.
Darn, it's late & I have to get to bed. I've gone on long enough, but I can't resist sayig that the early Christian church was viewed as a cult in its infancy. (They thought Christians were incestuous cannibals because they were "eating" the flesh of Christ, "drinking" His blood, and marrying their "brothers" & "sisters".) Needless to say things have changed. :}

proudconservative said...

The thing about Mormonism is this. Their claim of unprophesied, latter-day revelation opens the door for new revelations which would render mormonism irrelevant. There is no cohesion between The Bible, it's claims of exclusivity, and the Book of Mormon. They cannot exist together. How do I know this? God just told me. In fact, he has been speaking directly to me for some time now and fortunately I have been writing down all these things which I intend to use for the basis of a book . . .

David said...

Christ was God in the flesh, not flesh turned divined. Therefore, no man can claim divinity. Additionally, there is a solid view Revelation was written to the Christans (the seven churches of Asia 60 to 68a.d.) warning them to stay out of, and leave if in, Jerusalem in order to avoid the impending destruction which Christ the Son of God had prophesied before His death. That that generation would see Him coming in power bringing an end to the age (Old Law) which included the destruction of the Temple in 70a.d.

Only mention in scripture of Muhammad, Islam's founder, David Koresh of the Davidians in Texas, and Joseph Smith of the Mormons and the likes of them all is indirect...we are warned of false prophets, and to not be led astray by their works Gal 1:6-9, & 2 Tim 2:15-19. These have this to address: Jer 23:32 because of this in like, Jude 1:3-4. Their "teachings" are the often the result of 2 Tim 4:3-4, among other things.

We can be "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:16-17) because of Christ, not because of any man.

David